Codel Davis 19 Feb 2004 Pakistan We arrived in Pakistan at the hotel at about five o'clock in the morning local time. This followed our departure from Iraq the night before and therefore the night was spent in an airplane. We were scheduled to meet with President Pervez Musharraf in the late morning, but the time continued to change until we were suddenly summoned at half past one o'clock in the afternoon. The time changes are apparently part of his security routine which has been made more robust since the recent attempts on his life. Despite this, after arrival at the presidential palace, we were taken upstairs where the President immediately made his presence. He is every bit the military man and has a rather disciplined, impressive persona. He is unquestionably focused, but also seemed to be relaxed with our group and was quite frank and forthcoming in many of his answers. Among the many issues which face the President and the country of Pakistan, perhaps none is more vexing than the standoff with India over the state of Kashmir. Mr. Musharraf acknowledged that this was a test of his leadership and the will of the nation. He acknowledged that the initiation of dialogue over this issue was problematic, but he stood ready to meet anyone, at any time, at any place, to resolve the issue. He emphasized that the problem was one which must be resolved. He noted that it was positive Pakistan has been accepted as a party to the dispute and that this was a major change of Indian foreign-policy. He stated that the dialogue had now led to a tentative roadmap and that following the Indian elections later this spring, in May or June, the dialogue would start forcing the foreign ministers to meet in July or August to formulate an agenda. While it is too soon to say for certain, the President felt that we may be seeing a change in environment with respect to the civil coexistence. A prior policy which had only harsh words, it is now being apparently governed by cooperation. Mr. Musharraf stressed that it was America's role in the background which has helped to move this process forward, and he asked us, as duly elected representatives in America, to do what we could to keep America involved. He stated that facilitation and encouragement by the United States and the administration represented truly the last, best chance for peace in this troubled region. President Musharraf was asked about the role of the scientist Dr. A.Q. Kahn who recently confessed and was pardoned for selling nuclear secrets to other nations. The President stressed that the sale in involved only the design aspects of nuclear technology and not nuclear hardware. Apparently to him there was a qualitative difference between the design of a centrifuge parts of the centrifuge versus a complete machine. He may have been drawing a distinction which was academic, and attempt at rationalization, which to light the seriousness of the transfer of nuclear capability which ultimately could result in further nuclear proliferation. The President had recently addressed a group of several thousand religious scholars to urge them to promote harmony and renounce extremism. Under the terminology of religion, and he related that politicians use religious issues largely for manipulation. Scholars and clerics and various learned individuals represent various sects within the country. However the descendents of the order who are in charge of the shrines have the maximum influence, and they have a duty to promote the unity of God and not preach hatred and extremism. The President noted that the majority of Pakistanis are moderates and extremists are small in number. The extremists have not been visible because of the type of activities that they may be involved in. He was recently quoted in the Pakistani newspaper as saying that no foreigner has the right to be in Pakistan without legal documents and anyone trying to kick-up trouble would be stopped firmly. He found stern action against foreign elements trying to push their own agenda. On the issue of Madressas, the President stated that they should teach topics other than just religion. They should prepare children and students for professional occupations and not just prepare clerics. He noted that the schools do provide free room and board for the poorest of the poor in parts of the country that the government simply does not have the resources to reach at the present time. He speculated that, in the future, the government may be able to help lead of dollars, but that capacity provided by the schools we'll be needed for the foreseeable future. In response to a question about Western influence, the President differentiated between modernization and westernization. He stated this modernization is not only permitted but also required, and that individuals have a duty to the current state of the world. Westernization, he felt, referred to social patterns that sometimes were not acceptable to Pakistanis. In response to a question about the ISI, the Pakistani security agency, he noted that this group was a historic partner during the Cold War and the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. The President has changed all of the officers within the ISI, and further noted that he was a true military leader. If officers do not follow his direction they will be replaced from the end of the organization down two the lowest clerk. In regards to the hunt for the members of the former Taliban and Osma bin Laden in the northwestern provinces of Pakistan, the President noted that the Army was doing development work trying to win the trust of the people in the area. As he stated, the United States has been a tremendous help in this region. He described an intelligence network that was made up of members of the ISI, human intelligence agents and technical intelligence assistance which was largely done with help from the United States. He stated that, if available, they would use unmanned aerial vehicles. Additionally, he stated that he wanted to continue to develop a quick reaction force in this region, to be able to strike hard-and-fast as intelligence information became available. President Musharraf's" I'm sure we will eliminate them." He was emphatic that he wanted to wipe-out extremism in his country, and that the mutual interests of the United States and Pakistan were aligned. Afghanistan From the visit with President Musharraf, we were taken to the airport today and loaded onto a C-130 aircraft flight to Kabul. The scene of the ground at the Kabul airport was completely different from that which we encountered in Iraq. Because it is a NATO operation, there were many individuals, under different commands, as well as private security personnel in the staging area at the airport. We left the airport under heavy guard and were taken to the presidential palace to meet with Harmid Karzi. En route to the presidential palace, we drove through heavily populated areas of Kabul. One could not help but be struck by the degree of poverty in this area of the world. Clearly 20 years of Soviet occupation, Civil War and Taliban rule had not been kind to this country. Because of the relatively heavy traffic of that time of day and the desire for the security personnel to shorten our transit time, our trip to the presidential palace represented something similar to a NASCAR event. In spite of this, we arrived in one piece and were immediately taken upstairs to a large drawing room. Again Harmid Karzi immediately entered and after introductions all-around, we were seated to begin our discussion. The President thanked us for the help that America has given to the country of Afghanistan, in freeing it from the Taliban rule and for now helping him in the reconstruction of his country. In response to a question, Mr. Karzi noted that his transportation system and the rehabilitation of his transportation was the single most important element of reconstruction. As a result of the rehabilitation of the main highway, businesses were being established which he felt would speed in some return to economic stability. The President also noted that there was a significant amount of aid which came to Afghanistan from United States families, and that he was extremely grateful. Again, in response to a question about Osama bin Laden, the President felt optimistic about his eventual capture. He states the most important recent change has been the amount of operations in his country, in American intelligence and now, in receiving help from the Pakistan. In response to a question about the availability of health care in Afghanistan, the President noted that for 30 years, malaria had been eliminated in his country, but due to the war and civil strife, and its attendant chaos, malaria had returned as a problem. Certainly he felt that the high degree of maternal mortality was due to the war, Soviet occupation, economic turmoil and the disruption of civil society had all played a role. He did state that over the past two years they have been driving to improve, and he feels that they have made progress. Unquestionably, the writing of the Afghanistan Constitution has been one of the most important accomplishments of his presidency. Mr. Karzi stated that the Constitution was indeed a democratic document with human rights embedded within its structure. He felt there was widespread enthusiasm for the new Constitution and noted that the clergy in Afghanistan is asking people, particularly women, to register to vote. Reflecting on the past two years the President, he felt that one of the major events was the establishment of the political process in his country. He felt that there was a return to a free agent environment of expression. He noted changing the currency from the many forms which previously existed to a single new currency, which had occurred over a three-month time period, was a major accomplishment for his young government. He stated that the new currency was steady against both the dollar and the euro. Again, amongst accomplishments, he felt that their establishment of the transportation system was key. He also noted to that 4.2 million children were in school which represented a 30% increase from 2 years ago. When asked about failures, he was quick to point out that Government Reform was still a very necessary part of the process. He noted the presence of warlords which persisted in the countryside. He felt that terrorism, as previously existed, was finished which left only individual acts of terror continuing. The Army has grown from 600 to over 8,000 in 2-years time and is poised for assessing another similarly-sized expansion. There is currently the need to register 8 million people over the next two months for voting in elections which will occur in July. President Karzi has a rather wry sense of humor. He noted that, while he is proud of the Constitution and is eager for its passage, there is no constitutional precedent for the President to dissolve parliament. He questioned his own wisdom on this point. On the issue of drug trafficking and opium fields, the President felt that better enforcement, with eradication and intervention, was going to help curb this activity. Parenthetically, I should add that it was pointed out to us, during the drive into town, that due to problems with low agricultural prices many farmers were returning to opium fields as a method of raising money. Nevertheless, the President pointed out the construction of labs was a critical part of the process and that with the destruction of these labs more farmers might question the viability of growing copies as an economic game plan. It would still require a significant amount of institutional strength to overcome this difficulty. The President felt that they were mistaken to pay for the destruction of the poppy fields years ago because this only lead to the planting of more poppies. Additionally, the official policy of allowing 10-years for eradication of the fields simply lead people to believe that there was a 10-year time frame to work with. Many farmers were then bitterly disappointed when their fields were eradicated after one or two years and felt they had somehow been cheated. Most importantly, Mr. Karzi said a substitute crop was necessary. He pointed out that during the time of the Taliban farmers were destroying fruit orchards to make fields for the cultivation of poppies. The President believes that drugs and terrorism go hand-in-hand and that the further selling of opium trivializes the economy and ultimately strengthens terrorism. He was optimistic that they were developing a national control strategy and that eradication, and that they will be accompanied by a restructuring of farm produce. It is his contention that the growing of poppies grew out of state ordered terrorism and the institution of liberty throughout the country would be a powerful force in combating this.